
-------- TML Message #1343 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1343
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: UWP data available on TML archive!!
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 10:22:33 PDT

Well guys (and gals), this ought to perk up your morning.  With the help
of Sunbane's sys. admin (Thanks Dan!), I've managed to get all of the
Imperial Sector UWPs that were available on the GEnie network put in
the TML Archive.  If you look in ~ftp/pub/traveller/sectors, you'll see
compressed data files for the following sectors:

   Alpha Crucis   Delphi         Gushemege      Reft Sector      Verge 
   Antares        Deneb          Hinterworlds   RiftSpan Reach   Vland 
   Core           Diaspora       Ley            Solomani Rim
   Corridor       Empty Quarter  Lishun         Spica
   Dagudashaag    Fornast        Massilia       Spinward Marches
   Daibei         Glimmerdrift   Old Expanses   Trojan Reach

There is also a pair of programs in a single Tar file (ssv.tar.Z) in the
same directory.  The first program is section.c.  By filtering each of
the sector UWP files thru it, 16 subsector output files will be produced
(labelled sec_A thru sec_P).  The second program is ssv.c.  This X-Windows
based program allows you to view the subsector graphically in a high-res
window on your UN*X, allows you to add political/cultural/military borders
interactively, and allows you to print the modified subsector to an XImage
file (ssv.xwd) which is suitable for output to a laser printer (via the
MIT xpr utility).  Both programs are written in C, and should run on
standard AT&T SysV UN*X.

Even if you don't have access to a UN*X platform, at least the sector
UWP files should prove useful.

As to the legality of disseminating these files, I got explicit permission
from Joe Fugate (of DGP) to make these files available to the TML.  Since
he originally posted them to the GEnie Traveller library archives, he has
final authority over their disposition and he said, "No problem" (in so
many words :-)).

One final note.  With the exception of (I think) 3 files (Deneb, Corridor,
and Massilia), all the data in these files is pre-shattered-Imperium.
This means that most of the allegiance codes will be wrong.  Also, with
the exception of the 3 aforementioned files, most system names are absent.
Only 'Hi Pop' systems are named in the other 23 sector files.

Well, that's it.  Here's all the data.  Go nuts!

Later,

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1344 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1344
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 90 17:43 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: Answers to some questions


On aging: this is one of my big gripes with the Traveller character
system, one only partially addressed by DGP in the Vilani'n'Vargr Ahoy!
book. The question isn't one of macroscale ("3000 years in the future"
don't mean diddly if society's collapsed for most of that time), but
of microscale (on Skivgik, you're lucky if you reach 35, but on Gloomph
if you die at 150 they bury you in a cradle). The trick isn't time 
passage but PERCEIVED time passage, i.e. technological advancement and
quality of lifestyle. I think the GDW folx did a global average of tech
levels for the Marches and used that to ballpark the aging stuff; when
more very-hi-tech worlds come into the equation the average age of a 
character should go up a lot with respect to "aging" thresholds. So I'm
considering a sliding scale based on tech level of birth, childhood etc.
(But this utterly ignores the primary reason for aging: killing off or
crippling characters that are getting too powerful. I'm getting soft in
my old age; I let people like Dow (hi Dow) run characters in their 40s.
In my cruel youth I never let anyone get past 34 and stay in the service;
it kept their skills and cash manageable.)

Timelines: Again, you're thinking of macroscale vs. microscale. The years
from 1100 to 1140 are a drop in the bucket w/r/t the history of Humaniti
(and a bare sneeze to Yaskoydray, wherever the hey HE is these days), but
on a character's level they constitute a huge timespan with a ton of good
history (including two wars, the Fifth Frontier War and the Rebellion) to
choose from. If you choose any time before 1117, you're not IN the MegaTrav
universe; you're in Trav Classic, with its VERY different assumptions of
how the Universe works. (And, I might add, the appropriate differences in
many of the rules. I'd hate to put a standard TravClassic character from
anywhere other than the Marches up against a well-hardened MegaTrav character.)
If you go as late as 1140, you'll be making it up as you go along, because
only the GDW and DGP crystal ball gazers know what's beyond 1121 at this point
(with one VITAL exception: the GDW game writers made a very big slip in the
MegaTrav rule books, one that gives away an important piece of future
history that's obvious once you know what to look for. But I won't tell. |-> ).
I'd advise sticking to the years right after the Rebellion's peak (1119 to
1120 to start with); the most material is available for that period.

Sectors: Talk to Mark Cook. Both sectors you've named have been fully
mapped with full UWPs for all systems.

metlay

-------- TML Message #1345 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1345
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Timeline
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 10:04:17 BST

EHT%PSUARCH.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu writes:

>2. Timeline:  I am not sure where I want to start my players WRT the
>            rebellion.  I could start them before, say about 1100, right
>            around the event, or somewhat after, say 1140 or so.  What have the
>            rest of you done as far as the timeline is concerned?

The 4th Frontier War ended in 1092 (I think; I'm not sure on this one).
The 5th Frontier War started in 1105 (I am sure of this one).
The 5th Frontier War ended in 1111.
Strephon was assassinated in 1116.

So, around 1100 they can still be playing a post-war scenario, or a run-up to
5th Frontier War scenario.  From 1105 to 1111 is fireworks time.  After 1111
is another post-war scenario.  From 1116 until news of the assassination
reaches your part of the universe is relatively quiet.  From that time on,
it's The End Of Civilisation As We Know It.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- TML Message #1346 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1346
Date: Thursday 21st June 1990 10:18:29 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Darrians

 
While we're on the subject of minor races, here's something to think about:
 
In issue #14 of the JTAS, the Darrians were described as averaging 1.6m tall.
 
In Alien Module 8 they are 2.0m tall.  They also seem to have acquired
sharply pointed ears.
 
There is only one logical conclusion that can be drawn from these
observations:  SOMEONE HAS BEEN STRETCHING THE DARRIANS BY THE EARS.
I wonder if this could be a secret weapon of the Sword Worlds -- forget
the secret of the Star Trigger, and quake in fear at the prospect of the
dreaded Ear Stretcher. *gulp*
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:

-------- TML Message #1347 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1347
Date: Thursday 21st June 1990 10:15:31 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>
Subject: The Revised Minor Races List

 
Here is the revised Minor Races List.  I managed to unearth about 30 new
races that weren't on the Miller list.  Admittedly, a few of them are
extinct, but then Miller did include the Loeskalth in his own list.
 
If anyone can supply additions or corrections I would be pleased to hear
from you.
 
(H) after a name indicates a human race.
(E) after a name indicates an extinct race.
~~~~~~~~~~
Addaxur              //Tienspevnekr                               am4
Ael Yael             Jaeyelya                                     jtas15
Ahetaowa             Ahetaowa/Ihearu/Ealiyasiyw(2604)             bk8
Answerin (H)         Answerin/Parsi/Vland(0431)                   td5,mta1
Bolth                /Zachrisson/Fulani [possibly]                vr
Bosaki               //Far Frontiers                              rog
Brinn                Kateri/Sinta/Corridor(2238)                  td12
Bwaps (Newts)        Marhaban/Lentuli/Empty Quarter(0426)         jtas11
Cafadans (H)         Cafad/Sashrakusha/Corridor(3135)             td3
Capital Dwellers (H) Capital/Core/Core(2118)                      td9
Chirpers             [various]                                    am5,adv2
Darrians (H)         Darrian/Darrian/Spinward Marches(0627)       am8,jtas14
Dolphins             Terra/Sol/Solomani Rim(1827)                 td13,boj2
Dynchia              Melantris/Melantris/Leonidae                 jtas24
Ebokin               Yebab/Aramis/Spinward Marches(3002)          tta
Eliyoh               ?                                            td9
Eshaar Ashah         Eshaar/Taemerlyk/Far Frontiers(1826)         obe
Eslyat               Elliador/Trelyn/Vanguard Reaches(3110)       vr
G'naak (E)           Kirur/(0505)Thirty/Ruupiin                   am2
Geonee (H)           //Massilia                                   mtie,mta1
Girug'kagh           Kagh'kir/Kirarurr!ka/Ruupiin                 jtas21
Githiaskio           Githiaski/Darthe/Stars End                   jtas16
Gl'lu                Kubishush/Inar/Deneb(0917)                   td1
Gniivi               [Hinterworlds or Leonidae sectors]           ch39
Gogs                 Mirayn/Jungleblut/Far Frontiers(2134)        lsr
Gurvin               Ofilaq//Folgore                              am7
H'Oskhikhil          Storm/Riftdeep/Reavers Deep(1404)            td16,tsg
Happhirva            Rejhappur//Reavers Deep                      ft2
Hasst'kor (E)        Prt'//Spica                                  ch26
Hlanssai             Vrirhlanz [Vargr Extents]                    jtas22
Huosua               Iraisafeie/Tohai/Ealiyasiyw(1527)            td18
Iasat                Zurr                                         tea,wbh
Ilthara              Drexilthar/Drexilthar/Reavers Deep           pgd
Irdu                 Ishirdu/Two Worlds/Corridor(0338)            td3
Irhadre (H)          //Lishun                                     am8
Ithklur              Tryylin//Extolian                            am7
J'aadje              Gaajpadje/Ea/Reavers Deep(1124)              dadv6
Jenda                [Council of Leh Perash]                      ch39
Jessa                Galatea/(0808)Inverness/Far Frontiers        rog
Jgd-Il-Jagd          [Coreward edge of Imperium]                  jtas17
Kebkh                Deyis II/Khipge/Zarushagar(0917)             rgk
Kidulans             Kidulaar//Fornast(0819)                      gc
Kirrixurian (E)      Kirur/(0505)Thirty/Ruupiin                   am2
Kolzar               Wimorel/Anakod/Vland(3129)                   td5,mta1
Lalendrians          Lalendriss//K'righeek                        ch26
Lamura Gav           Cikuek/Pendiash Ginshar/Hinterworlds(2907)   ch39
Lamura Teg (H)       Cikuek/Pendiash Ginshar/Hinterworlds(2907)   ch39
Languljigee          Lajanjigal/Drexilthar/Reavers Deep           pgd
Larianz              Byret/Mora/Spinward Marches(2523)            smc
Llellewyloly         Junidy/Aramis/Spinward Marches(3202)         tta
Loeskalth (H)(E)     //Gushemege                                  mtie,tsr,fsr
Mal'Gnar (H)         Mal'Gnar/Mal'Gnar Radiant/Beyond(3002)       beyond
Minlad               Kaiid/Shuna/Lishun(0621)                     td6,wbh
Murians              //Vanguard Reaches [Altarean Confederation]  vr
Mwawmbijebe          Kualakhtaea                                  ar
Ojehshodu            Neghu Oug/The Narrows/Corridor(2804)         td18
Ormine               /Akhlare/Dark Nebula                         td17
Orpheides            Orphee/New Islands/Reft(1429)                adv5
Prt'                 Prt'//Spica                                  ch26
Qiceteu (E)          Ilma/Akumid/Vland(1523)                      mta1
Sabmiqys             Sabmiqys//Antares(2117)                      ch28
Saie                 /Caledon/Reavers Deep                        td16
Satha                Galatea/(0808)Inverness/Far Frontiers        rog
Shriekers            567-908/District 268/Spinward Marches(1031)  adv10
Sred*Ni              I'Sred*Ni Nest/I'Sred*Ni Heptad/Beyond(1923) beyond
Stalkers             //Hinterworlds [Outcasts Whispering Sky]     ch39
Suerrat (H)          Ilelish//Ilelish(2907)                       mtie,ch43
Tahavi               Tahaver/Vland/Vland(2017)                    td5,mta1
Thorellians          Thorell/Nicosia/Old Expanses(0231)           td12
Ulane                Ul/Earle/Dark Nebula(0603)                   td17
Vegans               Muan Gwi/Vega/Solomani Rim(1717)             mtie,sup11
Virushi              Virshash/Urlaqqash/Reavers Deep(2724)        jtas12
Xapoqi               Xapoqoz/Sashrakusha/Corridor(3131)           td18
Za'tachk             Loza'tch//Wrenton                            am7
[unknown name]       Hlao/Kilrai'/Dark Nebula(1719)               td17
[unknown name]       Luupim [somewhere in the 2000 Worlds]        am2
~~~~~~~~~~
 
Index to references:
  adv#     Traveller Adventure
  am#      Alien Module
  ar       Alien Realms
  beyond   Beyond (Paranoia Press)
  bk#      Traveller Book
  boj#     Best of the Journal of the Travellers Aid Society
  ch#      Challenge
  dadv#    Traveller Double Adventure
  fsr      Fate of the Sky Raiders (FASA)
  ft#      Far Traveller (FASA)
  gc       Grand Census (DGP)
  jtas#    Journal of the Travellers Aid Society
  lsr      Legend of the Sky Raiders (FASA)
  mta#     MegaTraveller Alien (DGP)
  mtie     MegaTraveller Imperial Encyclopedia
  obe      Ordeal By Eshaar (FASA)
  pgd      Pilot's Guide to Drexilthar Subsector (Gamelords)
  rgk      Referee's Gaming Kit (DGP)
  rog      Rescue On Galatea (FASA)
  smc      Spinward Marches Campaign
  sup#     Traveller Supplement
  td#      Travellers Digest (DGP)
  tea      The Early Adventures (DGP)
  tsg      The Space Gamer (series)
  tsr      Trail of the Sky Raiders (FASA)
  tta      The Traveller Adventure
  vr       Vanguard Reaches (Paranoia Press)
  wbh      World Builder's Handbook (DGP)
~~~~~~~~~~
 
That's all.  Have a nice drandir.
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:

-------- TML Message #1348 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1348
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: UWP data available in the TML archives!!
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 18:08:22 MET DST

I'm quite sure I speak for all of us when I say:

   THANKS A MILLION, MARK!!!

> One final note.  With the exception of (I think) 3 files (Deneb, Corridor,
> and Massilia), all the data in these files is pre-shattered-Imperium.

That is, from my point of view, even better, since the (hopefully) updated ones
is said to come out some time this year.
I'll give these files to the playes and keep the updated ones for myself :-)

- -bertil-

PS, Ehum, what is the (preferrably ip number) address for the TML archives?
    <embarresed grin> :-). I assume that it is anon ftp?
- -- 

-------- TML Message #1349 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1349
Subject: TML Archives
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 90 16:06:31 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR>


I apologize for being so busy lately.  When one automates a mailing list
to the extent I have, it is easy to ignore it for a while.

There are three ways to get archives:

FTP Archive Site:
	All the Traveller Archives (filled Bundles and Packages) are
	available via ftp from sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.4.12).
	A sample session follows (lines that a user would type on
	are marked with a "*", and commentary begins with a "#"):

    *	shell> ftp 129.100.4.12		#begin the ftp session
	Connected to 129.100.4.12.
	220 sunbane FTP server (SunOS 4.0) ready.
    *	Name (129.100.4.12:dan):anonymous   #prompts for your id, but type
					    #anonymous for archives
	331 Guest login ok, send ident as password.
    *	Password: 		#type yourlogin@yourhost.xx.xx here -
    				#echoing is disabled
	230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.
    *	ftp> binary		#set transfer type to binary
	200 Type set to I.
    *	ftp> cd pub/traveller	#chdir to the Traveller area
	250 CWD command successful.
    *	ftp> get bun01.Z	#file name assumed to be same on your host
	150 Binary data connection for bun01.Z (129.100.4.51,2328)
	    (20480 bytes).
	226 Binary Transfer complete.
	local: bun01.Z remote: bun01.Z
	20480 bytes received in .34 seconds (59 Kbytes/s)
				#repeat get command as desired
    *	ftp> bye		#terminate the ftp session
	221 Goodbye.
    *	shell> uncompress bun01.Z	#uncompress the bundle

	The files README and TOC provide a brief/detailed summary of the
	contents of the archive.
	
	The site is managed solely by the FTP Site Coordinator:
	dan@engrg.uwo.ca (Dan Corrin).  The University of Western
	Ontario is not responsible for the materials and opinions stored
	in the archives.

Automated Archive Service: archive-server@joshua.atherton.com
	Mail to this address is read by a program which sends automated
	replies.  Almost all of the Traveller Mailing List traffic since
	September 1, 1989, is available from this program.  For more
	information, send a message to the address above with the text
	"help" (on the subject line or first line of the mail message),
	and it will explain to you how to use it.  You can reach the
	human who administrates this service by mailing to
        archive-manager@joshua.atherton.com, or (in a pinch) to
        joshua@atherton.com (Josh Levy).  In UUCP land use
        decwrl!athertn!archive-server, hpda!athertn!archive-server, or
        sun!athertn!archive-server, (note the ommission of the letter
        "o" in the UUCP format).  Archive-server can be replaced with
        archive-manager or joshua in all of the addresses.

Human-run Semi-Automated Archive Service:
		traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
	I maintain an archive of every message ever sent to the mailing
	list.  On a time-available basis, I will recover old articles
	for you and resend them to you by direct mail.  I can also send
	you an Archive Table-of-Contents so you can pick and choose
	which messages look interesting.

James
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Traveller Mailing List Administrator	     James T Perkins @ Tektronix, Inc
traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com	     Beaverton, Oregon, USA
uunet!metolius.wr.tek.com!traveller-request  "Load Auto/Evade, Beowulf!"

-------- TML Message #1350 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1350
Subject: Gamemaster '90
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 90 14:24:35 MDT
From: rona@hpdml92.boi.hp.COM

   We're having a convention in Boise!

   Gamemaster '90 will be held from 8AM-11PM on October 20th at
the Student Union Building at Boise State University.  Among other
events we'll be featuring a 

   *********** MEGATRAVELLER TOURNAMENT ****************               

   "Antares Down", written by Philip Athans and will be run by 
none other than Joe Fugate and Gary Thomas of Digest Group 
Publications.   ^^^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^^^^^

   This tournament, written exclusively for Gamemaster '90
will also be the official RPGA MegaTraveller Tournament of GenCon 
1990.  Well..., maybe they _were_ thinking a little bit about GenCon
when they put it together. 

   Also, Gary Thomas will be giving a seminar on how to write and
be published for RPGs.

   Of course there will also be, AD&D, GURPS Fantasy, board games...

and... a GURPS Space/Cyberpunk tournament based on the film "Total
Recall".   (I'm co-writing this one.) 

   If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll help you with 
the details.  I might even be able to arrange a place to stay if
the demand isn't too high.  I realize that for most of you, airfare
to Boise is prohibitive, but for those of you on the West Coast
or Mountain States, maybe this could work out.

        Ron Abramson   email: rona@hpdml92.HP.COM
                      tel: 1-206-323-4293


-------- TML Message #1351 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1351
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Other sector UWPs
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 90 11:46:23 PDT

>> One final note.  With the exception of (I think) 3 files (Deneb, Corridor,
>> and Massilia), all the data in these files is pre-shattered-Imperium.
>
>That is, from my point of view, even better, since the (hopefully) updated
>ones is said to come out some time this year.
>I'll give these files to the playes and keep the updated ones for myself :-)

Actually, it didn't occur to me that folks might PREFER the UWP sector data
from the Classic Traveller period over the MT version.  You see, I 'hand-
cranked' the post-assassination data for Deneb and Corridor sectors (which
is where my campaign is taking place) from articles in Traveller's Digest
issues #18 and #19.  Also, the GEnie library had TWO archives for Massilia
sector: one with the 'old' data and one with the 'new' data.

So anyway, if there is enough interest from you TML'ers, I'll go back to
GEnie and get the 3 original sector UWP files for Deneb, Corridor and
Massilia.

Just let me know.

Later,

        "Jump-6 means never having to say, 'I'm sorry'."
                                        - Anon. Far Trader Captn.
        "All this for money? You're
         just a common thief."
                "I am an *exceptional* thief,
                 Ms. Genero, and you should
                 consider being nicer to me
                 since I'm about to move up
                 to kidnapping."
                        - DIEHARD

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1352 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1352
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 90 02:55:38 PDT
From: gwh%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@lilac.berkeley.edu
Subject: the subsector view program from the archive.

i just tried to compile this, and got 'several' thousand lines of error 
messages.  are other people compiling this successfully? [email replies are
fine].

- -george
 ==    George William Herbert   ==   I support Open-Access Computing! UCB OCF 
========== JOAT for Hire: ========= ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ==Anything, Anywhere, My Price.==   Quantum Mechanics can explain everything
  ==   gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu    ==  except Madonna, Flame Wars, and NASA's space
   ==  ucbvax!lilac!ocf!gwh   ==     Policy.  We're working on the first two...

-------- TML Message #1353 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1353
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Other sector UWP's
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 90 14:34:27 MET DST

> You see, I 'hand-
> cranked' the post-assassination data for Deneb and Corridor sectors (which
> is where my campaign is taking place) from articles in Traveller's Digest
> issues #18 and #19.

'Handcranked' as in typing it in manually? Sheesh! I get tired even thinking
about it!

> So anyway, if there is enough interest from you TML'ers, I'll go back to
> GEnie and get the 3 original sector UWP files for Deneb, Corridor and
> Massilia.

I'll manage without it. I'll just replace all the fancy alligance codes with
the old standard 'Im' :-)

BTW, Do you know if there is any other difference between the pre- and post- 
assassination data than the alligance codes? Changes in UWP tend to be few
and a long time between, but I guess that a few planets might have gotten
changes in Gov and Pop.

- -bertil-
- -- 

-------- TML Message #1354 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1354
Date: Monday 25th June 1990 09:13:26 BST
From: Alan Huscroft <ASSHUSCR@cms.am.cc.reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Date of the Fifth Frontier War

 
> The 5th Frontier War started in 1105 (I am sure of this one).
 
Funny, I was convinced it started in 1107.
 
METLAY ????!!!!
 
............................................................................
: Alan Huscroft              : Janet:    A.Huscroft@uk.ac.reading          :
: Reading, England           : Internet: A.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk          :
: 6-G takeoffs AND landings! : X-boat:   A.Huscroft@terra.sol.solomani_rim :
:............................:.............................................:

-------- TML Message #1355 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1355
Subject: Sheepish Grin and "Hi there"...
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 90 19:18:47 PDT
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!agora.hf.intel.com!richard@tessi.UUCP (Richard Johnson)

Hi everybody.  Finally made it to the bottom of the mailbox.
Started about two weeks ago (shortly after Mark called.)

Glad to see you had the good sense to have a party while
the GM was away.  :-)  

I suspect that few of us are actually prepared to re-boot
the game just now, so I'k like to table it until around
September or so, when folks start to get back to school,
and (at least it seems right now) that my schedule will 
adjust to some sense of normalcy.

- ----------------------
Other things:

Got my pilot's license in May.  Huge :-)
Landing a *little, slow* plane is like trying to parallel
park your car at 60mph--I can't even imagine trying something
silly like high-speed space shuttle passes.

I have a copy of the Zhodani alien module.  Anyone want
to bid on it?

- ----------------------------
Thanks again for hanging in there.  It's good to be back,
if only part time.

Richard Johnson

	 richard@agora.hf.intel.com		


-------- TML Message #1356 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1356
From: "Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: (1354) Date of the Fifth Frontier War
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 90 22:53:44 EST

 In Archive-Message-Number 1354 Alan Huscroft writes:
 >
 >> The 5th Frontier War started in 1105 (I am sure of this one).
 > 
 >Funny, I was convinced it started in 1107.

     Guess what?  You're right.  I have issue 9 (the "War Issue") of the
Journal right here in front of me, and the dateline on the Traveller
News Service war announcement is 187-1107.  From Regina, of course.  ;-)


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu  /  USENET:  pur-ee!gn.ecn.purdue.edu!woodsb
USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163
PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)


-------- TML Message #1357 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1357
From: Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Mercenary, Mercenarier, Mercenariest.
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 90 16:48:21 MET DST

I was reading the thread about Mercenaries, and some questions struck me.
Being a generally slow and lazy person, I have not managed to write anything
until now, but here it is:

1. Those darn repatriation bonds.
  The olde book 'Mercenary' talked about 'Repatriation Bonds'. This was made up
to be the saviour of every merc that was stranded on a (hostile?) world because
the employing government lost the war and ceased to exist. It was defined as 
'money held in escrew by a third party' (probably Hortalez or Zirunkarish) that
was supposed to be spent upon mid-passage to some system of the merc's choise
(defined beforehand, supposedly).
  What I realized when my players decided to employ two squads of merc's was
that the amount of Cr's needed to even transport those two squads one jump, 
was far larger than the total salary and bonus of the entire unit! And several
jumps was totally out of the question.
  There is not many countries in desperate need of a merc unit that can afford
to pay several times 8kCr per person in the merc unit. The fact that the money
is't lost weighs light when the country itself might  not be around to make use
of the refunded money. They would probably be better off buying weapons for the
money instead of letting them mould in a locked account at Hortalez et Cie's :-)

2. Who exacly can hire a merc unit?
  It is hard to imagine that the Imperium let's every Tom, Dick, and Norris hire
a band of armed soldiers for some mission that certainly will require that laws
is to be broken. If 'Union of Vranx' wants to invade it's neighbour on the 
balcanized planet, the 'Uurk Federation', to capture their resources, they'll
probably going to break a whole lot of local laws in the 'Federation', yet, this
seems to be a perfectly ok use of mercs.
  What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock wants to
knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.
  "Oh no, officer, We are just the Dalton brothers, and we're a Merc unit!
Look here: here is our mercenary ticket about OK Corral, and here is our 
repatriation bonds."
(Reservations for lack of knowledge about the history of the west :-)
  
  One possible answer to this is that the Imperium don't bother with groundling
conflicts unless they break the 'Imperial Rules of War' that talks about 
'Major economic damage to the region'and 'Excessive extraplanetary involvement'.
  
  By that line of reasoning, travelling to Regina to knock over a bank would be
out, (At least you wouldn't get away with calling it a merc ticket :-) on the
grounds of 'Extraplanetary involvement'. (Remember? *travel* to Regina :-)
Likewise would knocking over the Regina Gold Depository, (Because of 'Major
economic damage to the region'). But knocking over a local branch on your
home-planet *would* be ok by this reasoning, and since that usually don't 
occur every two weeks on all planets, this line of reasoning is wrong.

  Second possible answer: Only governments and similar organizations is allowed
to hire mercs: Probably wrong for several reasons, foremost that several 
MegaCorps have employed mercs repeatedly. It might lead to some amusing 
scenarios, though.
  "Hi! We are the Splutifaxian Air Force and we're robbing this bank!"
  "Splutifax? Never heard of it! When was it founded?"
  "About seven minutes ago!"

  Third possible answer: Only governments and companies and similar 
organizations is allowed to hire merc's: 
  "Hi! We're from Harry's bar and grill and we're robbing..."
  Ok then, probably not.

  Fourth possible answer: Only if you have friends in high places (Hi Brzk!) 
or if your opponent lacks such friends, are you allowed to hire mercs,
or rather:
  If you don't have those friends and hire some merc's to knock over the Bank
of Regina, you are going to get a early morning visit from your 
14 (not-so-friendly) neighbourhood plasma-gun-armed marines.


  For some reason, I'd put my money on Answer #4, How about you, folks?

- -bertil-
- -- 
"This .signature is hijacked! Fly me to Helsinki!"
"Fly???"
"Ok, I'll settle for e-mail then!"

-------- TML Message #1358 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1358
From: "C. Harald Koch" <chk@alias>
Subject: Re: (1355) Sheepish Grin and "Hi there"...
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 90 10:39:09 EDT

> Got my pilot's license in May.  Huge :-)
> Landing a *little, slow* plane is like trying to parallel
> park your car at 60mph--I can't even imagine trying something
> silly like high-speed space shuttle passes.

When doing high-speed space shuttle passes, you have some pretty
sophisticated computer equipment helping you out.

This kind of system exists now; certain combat aircraft and helicopters
have a 'ground-hugging' autopilot which attempts to travel at a fixed height
above the terrain.  According to sources it works rather well. No human
could do it though; there is too much information and reactions need to be
very fast.

Similar (but much more advanced) computer systems no doubt exist in most
space shuttles, particularly combat drop-shuttles...

- -- 
C. Harald Koch  VE3TLA                Alias Research, Inc., Toronto ON Canada
chk%alias@csri.utoronto.ca      chk@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu      chk@chk.mef.org
"Open the Zamboni! We're coming out!" - Kathrin Garland and Anson James, 2299


-------- TML Message #1359 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1359
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 90 17:40 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: PBEM tabling and Fifth War Dates


Richard, I think you're making the right choice. I don't mind tabling
the PBEM until September. I do advise, though, that the infrastructure
be left in place, and that players who're still here continue with
dialogue and occasional info exchange. After all, we have a while to
get to know one another....|->

As for the Fifth Frontier War, it began with the invasion of Regina
from the Ruie system in 1107, and ended with a cease-fire in mid-1110
and an official armistice on 001-1111. It was the second shortest of
the Frontier Wars. The earliest adventure dates used in any official 
GDW products were in 1105, for Annic Nova and The Traveller Adventure.

metlay

-------- TML Message #1360 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1360
From: "Brent L. Woods" <woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: Re: (1357) Mercenary, Mercenarier, Mercenariest.
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 90 2:45:00 EST


 In Archive-Message-Number 1357, Bertil Jonell writes:
 >
 >1. Those darn repatriation bonds.
 >  The olde book 'Mercenary' talked about 'Repatriation Bonds'. This
 >was made up to be the saviour of every merc that was stranded on a
 >(hostile?) world because the employing government lost the war and

     Well, yeah, hostile.  People you've been *shooting at* don't
usually think friendly thoughts about you, especially when you're on
the losing side in a war.

 >ceased to exist. It was defined as 'money held in escrew by a third
 >party' (probably Hortalez or Zirunkarish) that was supposed to be
 >spent upon mid-passage to some system of the merc's choise (defined
 >beforehand, supposedly).

     Usually one system for the entire unit, seeing as how mercenary
tickets are only intended for combat-ready, organized units (individual
mercenaries are responsible to their commander, who in turn deals with
the employer).

 >  What I realized when my players decided to employ two squads of
 >merc's was that the amount of Cr's needed to even transport those two
 >squads one jump, was far larger than the total salary and bonus of
 >the entire unit! And several jumps was totally out of the question.
 >  There is not many countries in desperate need of a merc unit that
 >can afford to pay several times 8kCr per person in the merc unit. The
 >fact that the money is't lost weighs light when the country itself
 >might  not be around to make use of the refunded money. They would
 >probably be better off buying weapons for the money instead of
 >letting them mould in a locked account at Hortalez et Cie's :-)

     That's the whole point of a repatriation bond.  If you lose (and,
consequently, are unable to pay your mercenaries), the mercenary unit
can still get off-world (and, presumably, find work elsewhere--they
hope) using banked money that you no longer have any use for (since you
no longer exist as an organization).  If you win, then, great.  Reclaim
the bond, use it to pay off your mercenaries, then take what's left and
use it for a much-deserved trip to the famous vacation world of Riviera.
You've won the war--now it's Miller time...  ;-)

 >2. Who exacly can hire a merc unit?
 >  It is hard to imagine that the Imperium let's every Tom, Dick, and
 >Norris hire a band of armed soldiers for some mission that certainly
 >will require that laws is to be broken. If 'Union of Vranx' wants to
 >invade it's neighbour on the balcanized planet, the 'Uurk
 >Federation', to capture their resources, they'll probably going to
 >break a whole lot of local laws in the 'Federation', yet, this seems
 >to be a perfectly ok use of mercs.

     Since mercenaries are *soldiers*, they are usually hired for the
purpose of warfare (less often for use as cadre or military police/
occupation troops).  The people who hire them are either "true" (de
jure) governments, de facto governments (such as MegaCorps), or
would-be governments (like rebels).  Notice that all these potential
employers are fairly large organizations, usually with easy access to
the kind of wealth that is needed to hire even a modest-sized
mercenary unit.  Remember, decent troops don't come cheap.

 >  What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock
 >wants to knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.

     Easy.  It's the same as the difference between legitimate warfare
and commiting a criminal act.  Fighting a war is *not* the same as
robbing a bank, either legally or practically.

 >  One possible answer to this is that the Imperium don't bother with
 >groundling conflicts unless they break the 'Imperial Rules of War'
 >that talks about 'Major economic damage to the region' and 'Excessive
 >extraplanetary involvement'.

     Right.  As long as you don't use any nuclear explosives and keep
your invasions *quick* and relatively clean, the Imperium doesn't care.

 >  Second possible answer: Only governments and similar organizations
 >is allowed to hire mercs: Probably wrong for several reasons,
 >foremost that several MegaCorps have employed mercs repeatedly.

     Since when are MegaCorps *not* governments?  Within their (usually
extensive) on-planet holdings they have the force of a government, and
can still get off world (and, presumably, find work elsewhere--they
in the case where they own an entire planet (or system) then they most
definitely *are* a government.  Anyone who can command the kind of
wealth and power that a MegaCorp represents definitely qualifies for
membership in the Major Players Club.


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
USNAIL:  2818 S. Sunrise Dr.  /  New Palestine, IN  46163
PHONE:  +1 (317) 861-4844 (voice)


-------- TML Message #1361 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1361
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Mercs
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 90 10:17:51 BST

Bertil Jonell <d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se> writes:

> 2. Who exacly can hire a merc unit?
> ...
>		   If 'Union of Vranx' wants to invade it's neighbour on the 
> balcanized planet, the 'Uurk Federation', to capture their resources, they'll
> probably going to break a whole lot of local laws in the 'Federation', yet, this
> seems to be a perfectly ok use of mercs.
>   What is the real differece between this and if Wild Bill Hicock wants to
> knock over a bank and hires 4 commandos to help him.

As far as the Imperium is concerned, none.  The planets in question look after
their own defence.  If the "Rules of War" are broken, the Imperium intervenes.
I suspect the Vranxian invasion is more likely to break the Rules than the
bank job.

>   One possible answer to this is that the Imperium don't bother with groundling
> conflicts unless they break the 'Imperial Rules of War' that talks about 
> 'Major economic damage to the region'and 'Excessive extraplanetary involvement'.
>   
>   By that line of reasoning, travelling to Regina to knock over a bank would be
> out, (At least you wouldn't get away with calling it a merc ticket :-) on the
> grounds of 'Extraplanetary involvement'. (Remember? *travel* to Regina :-)

It's the "excessive" bit that decides it.  For a start, Hickok's crowd are in
violation of Regina's laws on possession of weapons the moment they leave the
starport.  If they resist arrest, to the extent of killing off any police that
try, they may wind up having the local army to deal with.  If they have the
firepower to wipe out the police and army, that's excessive involvement, and
they have the Imperium to deal with.

>   Fourth possible answer: Only if you have friends in high places (Hi Brzk!) 
> or if your opponent lacks such friends, are you allowed to hire mercs,
> or rather:
>   If you don't have those friends and hire some merc's to knock over the Bank
> of Regina, you are going to get a early morning visit from your 
> 14 (not-so-friendly) neighbourhood plasma-gun-armed marines.

This is certainly one factor; another is that the Imperium just doesn't have
the resources to police every one of its worlds.  Each planet is responsible
for its own defence and police.  The Imperial forces come in when things get
serious, e.g. Zhodani invasion, TL12 mercs robbing TL4 planets, etc.  The
Imperium officially doesn't like anyone hiring mercs, because it doesn't want
fighting within its borders.  Unofficially, a quick military campaign is
usually preferable to a long economic one, such as sanctions, trade embargoes
etc.  The "Rules of War" have never been written down, and don't "officially"
exist, because if they did they would indicate Imperial approval of internal
wars.  Basically, a mercenary unit has to use common-sense, and so does its
employer.  If their idea of common-sense differs from that of the local
governor, the Imperium intervenes.  "Excessive off-world involvement",
"economic damage" are not precisely defined, mainly so a merc unit can't
say "But Rorke's Raiders did it two months ago on Roup, and you didn't bother
them".  There is one exception.  If anyone uses nuclear weapons, the Imperial
forces squash them.

- -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

-------- End of TML Messages --------

